Do you support the prosecution of Nick Griffin?

[littlebabyjesus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bradford/6125834.stm

Odious little shit that he is, should Nick Griffin be prosecuted for calling Islam a 'wicked, vicious faith'? I think this is a sad day for freedom of speech in this country. Much as it may stick in the craw, should we be hoping for a not guilty verdict?

 

[zoltan]

he should be allowed to discuss his opinions in public IMHO - this ideally wll show him for the absurd little bigot he is.

We are adults and most of us can make up our own decisions on prople/ policies.

All faiths are wicked + vicious, not just islam tho.Hes just using it as a trigger for his own nasty agenda without actually mentioning an etnic group by name

 

[Roadkill]

Griffin's an odious turd, but being something of a free speech fundie I disagree with prosecuting him. It's morally wrong and it's counterproductive. Let him have his say out in the open; it's only a matter of giving him enough rope to hang himself.

 

[Haller]

The prosecution is a disgrace. I'd like to think they won't be able to get a jury to convict.

 

[Haller]

All faiths are wicked + vicious, not just islam tho.Hes just using it as a trigger for his own nasty agenda without actually mentioning an etnic group by name

Undoubtedly he is doing that, but not all faiths are equally wicked and vicious, and it should be perfectly acceptable to single out those that one regards as worse than others. I'd rather we had a Quaker in the Government, for example, than a member of Opus Dei.

 

[Luther Blissett]

Every Jew I know, Zionist and non-Zionist alike, secular and religious alike, whatever their political outlook, rejects Mr.Griffins recent attempts to shed his racist antisemitic image by 'adopting' certain right-wing Christian style support for 'Israel' and 'British Jews' (who he no doubt claims are homogenously part of his 'white' wet dream). We consider his overtures to non-religious ethnic Jews by way of legitimising his newfound 'crypto-antiracism' as deceptive and misleading.

If Mr.Griffin were actually to address the real political issues of working class Brits who are drawn to his crypto-fascist politics by doing some real grass-roots work, instead of working to divide commmunities by scapegoating immigrants of any generation as well as non-Christian religions (Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Hindu, etc) then his party might be in danger of achieving something for the people it claims to represent. Until then, it agitates and distracts the working classes and leads them down a xenophobic path of hatred of someone of different skin colour, different religion, different racial origin or nationality.

It's my taxes that pay for this trial. I'm very interested in the judgement which will be passed on my behalf.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I think that had he made these pronouncements in a public place, the prosecution could be right on the basis of stirring up racial hatred.

However, I am a tad perturbed that the evidence was gained using an undercover reporter at a private meeting - isn't the sort of thing dictatorships do?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

How can criticising religious belief come under anti-racism legislation? Surely it would be better to let the tosser say what he wants and defeat him on his own terms.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

This is true - I don't think it was just about belief though, at least the quotes I read from collett did go into racist territory - familiar stuff about asians soliciting white girls etc.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Counter productive - allowing the BNP to claim they are being 'persecuted for telling the truth ... political correctness .. etc etc'.

Cant see they can get a conviction on the basis of the evidence seen so far.

How come it went to a retrial?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

However, I am a tad perturbed that the evidence was gained using an undercover reporter at a private meeting - isn't the sort of thing dictatorships do?

How is a reporter going undercover to expose fascist filth the act of a dictatorship? A public service surely. If the opinions unearthed open the filth to prosecution all the better.

Griffin's comments weren't part of some abstract discussion in a university tutorial about the comparative merits of various religions. They were a deliberate attempt to provoke racist violence and division. "They (muslims) will do for someone in your family" is not a valid debating point, it's a piece of provocation that needs slapping.

 

[RockandorRoll]

Balls to free speech. Censor all the bastards - their intentions are opaque.. so why should we allow blatant incitement to violence?

And i dont see it as counter-productive .. the only people who would be swayed by BNP arguing "PCGM" are BNP supporters already - anyone with half a wit can spot such obvious bullshit a mile away.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Balls to free speech. Censor all the bastards - their intentions are opaque.. so why should we allow blatant incitement to violence?

And i dont see it as counter-productive .. the only people who would be swayed by BNP arguing "PCGM" are BNP supporters already - anyone with half a wit can spot such obvious bullshit a mile away.

Your second point seems to contradict the first. If what they are saying isn't going to sway anyone, let them say it. Prosecuting him for comments about religion opens the way for others with very different intentions to also be prosecuted. I would like to retain the freedom to criticise idiotic beliefs and if that means letting idiots do so as well, then that is a price worth paying.

 

[Megaton]

His balls should be put in a vice. If he has any....

 

[Treacle Toes]

Surely he incites racial hatred with his crap?

 

[8den]

If he wins, he garners a platform to speak out aganist a state trying to suppress him. If he loses he becomes a free speech martyr.

Either way this trial gives him and the BNP the oxygen of publicity. Frankly I resent them getting oxygen period.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sod prosecuting Griffin.

I'm far more interested in persecuting him.

 

[kyser_soze]

What exactly is he being prosecuted for? If it's literally saying in public that Islam is a 'wicked and vicious faith' then it's a load of absolute bollocks and a fucking disgrace that it ever got to court.

If in that speech he made comments that would directly lead to violence against someone he should be prosecuted under the existing incitement laws (which personally I disagree with cos like Roadie I'm a fundie FoSer), however if he's just been slagging Islam (the faith, not the people who follow it) then this is bollocks. If he's been going round saying 'Muslims will do X or Y to you unless you stop them' then he deserves everything he gets.

Unfortunately, as this thread shows, the phobics and philics won't be able to discern subtlty like that tho.

Balls to free speech. Censor all the bastards -

Tosser.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Sod prosecuting Griffin.

I'm far more interested in persecuting him.

Now, that's the spirit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If he wins, he garners a platform to speak out aganist a state trying to suppress him. If he loses he becomes a free speech martyr.

Either way this trial gives him and the BNP the oxygen of publicity. Frankly I resent them getting oxygen period.

Well said, but I think you now owe the estate of Linda Smith £5.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

How is a reporter going undercover to expose fascist filth the act of a dictatorship? A public service surely. If the opinions unearthed open the filth to prosecution all the better.

Griffin's comments weren't part of some abstract discussion in a university tutorial about the comparative merits of various religions. They were a deliberate attempt to provoke racist violence and division. "They (muslims) will do for someone in your family" is not a valid debating point, it's a piece of provocation that needs slapping.

i agree about the comments, however I think the 'private' element of it is the overbearing one. It's the sort of thing that we usually read about happening in my current place of residence, the PRC.

 

[Haller]

Surely he incites racial hatred with his crap?

In the context of a private meeting of the BNP, the quotes of his that have been reported are hardly likely to incite any more racial hatred than was already present in the room.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think it's the 'private' that worries me most. This means that we are not allowed to say absolutely what the fuck we like in private. I don't see any argument for this prosecution being in the public interest.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I did like the way that the Beeb reported the opening day of the trial - apparently, and I quote, 'Surrounded by police and minders, the pair kissed and shook hands with supporters' - the image of Griffin and Collet snogging on the court room steps has been one I can't remove my my mind

 

[Kaka Tim]

Balls to free speech. Censor all the bastards - their intentions are opaque.. so why should we allow blatant incitement to violence?

And i dont see it as counter-productive .. the only people who would be swayed by BNP arguing "PCGM" are BNP supporters already - anyone with half a wit can spot such obvious bullshit a mile away.

Actually a lot of people may well start saying 'he's got a point'.

Its clear what the BNP agenda is, but I cant see anything in what Griffin said that is a clear incitement to violence or racial hatred. Arguing for the state to clamp down on what the far right says in its own meetings opens the door for them to do exactly the same to the likes of Eco-activists, anti-war campaingers, anarchists, animal rights activists, millitant anti-fascists - in fact any radical group you care to mention who cause problems for the state.

Far far better for ordinary people to take their own collective action agasint the far right then to press the state to gather yet more power onto itself to supress non-mainstream political discourse.

 

[Roadkill]

Far far better for ordinary people to take their own collective action agasint the far right then to press the state to gather yet more power onto itself to supress non-mainstream political discourse.

Couldn't agree more.

Balls to free speech. Censor all the bastards - their intentions are opaque

^ Horseshit.

 

[likesfish]

much as I personally would like nick and all his mates fed to pigs prefably free range ones .
not sure argueing in a private meeting he was inciteing racial hatred ffs its a bnp meeting there were hardly going to be discussing hug a darkie week were they
worst possible outcome is he gets jailed and has time to write his prison memoirs think archer without the wit and a side order of hatred
there odious incompetants whose racist thinking falls apart when argued against by even the marginally sane

 

[Azrael]

This is a genuine thought-crime, and I'm totally against it. He is, in effect, being prosecuted for "inciting" a bad emotion and saying offensive things. Reprehensible.

I'll add the obligatory denunciation of Mr Griffin's crackpot agenda and odious party. I simply believe in free speech: you can't have "some" free speech, because it then ceases to be free.

 

[kyser_soze]

Ah but but but you can stop some forms of speech if I DON'T LIKE THEM. Because, let's face it, the world would be a better place if EVERYONE JUST LISTENED TO WHAT I WANT TO DO AND THEN DID IT.

It's no wonder that revolutions fail to deliver on their promise really is it?

 

[likesfish]

I think thats prefectly sane and will follow kyser_soze anywhere if only out of a morbid sense of curiosity