Crossrail 2- consultation begins

[Crispy]

When HS2 is finished, Euston is going to get much much busier. The tube won't be able to cope. So, a new underground railway for London will be needed. They're calling it Crossrail 2. The central London route is already safeguarded and Tottenham Court Road Crossrail station has been designed to take account of the future interconnection.

They're considering two options, Metro and Regional. Regional would be like Crossrail and Thameslink; mainline trains with multiple suburban destinations on branches outside the central section.



Metro would be a self-contained underground line, with higher frequency of services but smaller trains, terminating in Zone 3. Smaller platforms and tunnels would allow a station at Piccadilly Circus, which would be impossible with the Regional scheme.



You can tell TfL what you think of the plans here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/projectsandschemes/27405.aspx

I told them that Regional is the obvious choice and that they should add stations in Stoke Newington and Wandsworth.

 

[Dogsauce]

Could they build both, in roughly parallel tunnels? There's be some efficiencies in terms of sorting out easements, combined worksites etc.

Mind, I'd rather the rest of the country got a bit of this pot of money too rather than a few crumbs for a few miles of tram or trolley buses. Let's have some tunnels in Leeds, Bristol, Manchester etc.

 

[Garek]

Regional seems the obvious option simply because of how hampered our system is by short-sighted decision making (and in fairness being first).

Hopefully once this is built they can do an interchange with the Central line at Shoreditch.

 

[mauvais]

Core tunnel portals sound cooooool. Can we have those?

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Core tunnel portals sound cooooool. Can we have those?

No but there might be cake.

Train shaped cake.

 

[g force]

Regional looks a better option...would prefer a spur for Streatham or a route that links to a station there rather than still having to go to Wimbledon on Thameslink to then get a train (of whatever variety) to Kingston.

 

[bi0boy]

Metro, who wants to go to Surbiton ffs?

 

[skyscraper101]

You can have a good life in Surbiton.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

They really should run from Ally Pally through to Highgate, what with there being a disused railway line already there. Especially if they fail to warn the mummies with buggies before the first train thunders through.

 

[Crispy]

They really should run from Ally Pally through to Highgate, what with there being a disused railway line already there. Especially if they fail to warn the mummies with buggies before the first train thunders through.

The alignment's not quite right for that. The old GNR track ran from a station behind the palace building itself in a Westward direction to Highgate, before curving back East to Finsbury Park. Part of the A.P.-Highgate section has been built on, while the Highgate-F.P. section is the linear park and wouldn't help Crossrail 2 at all. I suppose you could continue the tunnels past Alexandra Palace and resurface at Highgate on the untouched bit of the trackbed in Highgate wood.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Oh. Might as well just tunnel all the way to Southgate instead then.

 

[ChrisD]

when I read (elsewhere) it connected the ... "South-West" I thought perhaps speeding up Paddington to Euston.... but it's SOUTH WEST LONDON. If Euston is the hub then it needs good spokes in ALL directions.

 

[joevsimp]

I was a bit surprised when I saw the route, I thought that taking over Leyton to Epping from the Central Line was the plan, not the Enfield/Herts. side of the Lea Valley line, although I suppose that makes a bit more sense, especially if they send it all the way to stanstead (which they probably won't)

as for the metro plan, what's the point of joining up three places south of the river that are already on the underground?

 

[Crispy]

as for the metro plan, what's the point of joining up three places south of the river that are already on the underground?

Because the underground is overcrowded.

Of course, a new line in South-East London is what's really needed, but SE London isn't sexy

 

[joevsimp]

nothing doing on the Hayekerloo plan then? I agree about the lines being overcrowded, but surely south London needs more tube stations, not just a new way of joining the existing ones up

 

[Dogsauce]

The DLR is supposedly extending to from Bank to Euston too, possibly via Charring Cross or something like that - we had the tender for something related to this at work a while back - think it was just a feasibility study of some kind..

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Just got an email saying the proposed map has been updated: http://crossrail2.co.uk/

 

[marty21]

read somewhere there is a talk of a connection to Clapton, not sure if it is to the existing station or a new station would need to be built -

brief excitement at this until I realised it wasn't until 2030

 

[Crispy]

The amended route does two things:

1. Instead of Dalston Junction getting half the trains, and Hackney Central getting the other half: One will get all and the other nothing. Choose!
(My money's on Dalston Junction, with the new station stretching to Dalston Kingsland, thus creating a single Dalston Interchange station, although you could do the same with Hackney Downs and Central)
It saves a couple of billion.

2. They'd like to move the Chelsea station a bit further to the west.
Which is nearer to "development opportunities"
ie. they can get developers to foot the bill for the station.

 

[TodayIsCaturday]

So, will there be like through trains from Stansted or something - where do these regional trains start? Chestnut?

 

[Crispy]

So, will there be like through trains from Stansted or something - where do these regional trains start? Chestnut?

The current plan is Hertford East.
The line would be doubled between Cheshunt and Broxbourne to allow the CR2 trains to run without interfering with the fast tracks. It therefore relieves Liverpool Street of all the commuter traffic between Hertford East and Tottenham Hale.

I'm a bit puzzled about the apparent terminus at Alexandra palace. There's plenty of track north of there.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I'm a bit puzzled about the apparent terminus at Alexandra palace. There's plenty of track north of there.

Doesn't it go to New Southgate? As, oddly, I suggested a year ago, in jest?

 

[Crispy]

Oops, yes that's what I meant. Still, Zone 4 is a bit close in for the terminus of a commuter rail line.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

You're right, New Southgate is an odd place to stop, considering that the FCC goes north from there to Potters Bar and to Hatfield. There's nothing near New Southgate station anyway, apart from Homebase and Topps Tiles, which are places that even Urbanites wouldn't go to by train. It's quite close to the old bin at Colney Hatch, but that's luxury flats now. Otherwise, the bleak uninhabited wastelands of Friern Barnet.

 

[Belushi]

Tottenham Hale station is being rebuilt next year, from what I've seen of the plans they're leaving plenty of capacity for future extension.

 

[Belushi]

You're right, New Southgate is an odd place to stop, considering that the FCC goes north from there to Potters Bar and to Hatfield. There's nothing near New Southgate station anyway, apart from Homebase and Topps Tiles, which are places that even Urbanites wouldn't go to by train. It's quite close to the old bin at Colney Hatch, but that's luxury flats now. Otherwise, the bleak uninhabited wastelands of Friern Barnet.

Sounds like the ideal site for a big depot.

 

[Dogsauce]

Or some shit flats.

That 'build a station where a developer will pay a bit rather than where it serves the most people' thing is a shit sandwich. It's happening with a new station near me, and the developer's backed out of paying for most of it due to the recession, so the council/gov are now having to put ten million into the pot.

 

[Dogsauce]

No chance of this (or the Thameslink upgrade) allowing some direct services from the north to Gatwick, Brighton or other destinations beyond London? A direct and fast Leeds-Brighton service would be pretty good, as would having a range of drop off points within London for express services from elsewhere (like the National Express coaches).

(I expect the limitations on doing this might be platform length and dwell times for express services, but would be nice if one of the 'open access' operators had a crack at something like this - though I assume the cosseted London Commuter will take priority for available paths)

 

[Crispy]

Such services used to exist, using the overground route via Kensignton Olympia. You used to be able to take a train from Brighton to Glasgow. No Crosscountry on that route since 2008 http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/3749781.Train_services_from_Brighton_withdrawn/-title=Train/

 

[TodayIsCaturday]

I think they're doing Gatwick and Brighton to Bedford and King's Lynn soon, everyone's favourite destinations north of London.