'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?

[treelover]

http://www.avlll.co.uk/

Common Sense is not a Conspiracy

An increasing number of people around world are starting to see through the charade of apparent trauma going on in the world around them. "The Alternative View" conference (AV3) at The Grand Thistle Hotel Bristol (13-15 November) is the third in a series of events which explore the phenomenon of why so many are now questioning what they previously took for granted. The Alternative View provides a forum for those who are sceptical about the on-going wars in Afghanistan & Iraq, the economic meltdown and subsequent banker bailouts, swine flu epidemics, the impact of the Lisbon Treaty on National Sovereignty, and the absurd claims that vitamins are now bad for us!

or

Reclaiming Our Sovereignty Conference - Saturday 31st October 2009 www.thebcgroup. co.uk

The nation is in a state of collapse. We have collapsing industry, agriculture, basic economic infrastructure and health provision. Rather than working to reverse this collapse, our politicians are working as hard as they can to have us subsumed into a regionalised European superstate.

The new European government is to be headed up by Tony Blair, a man who, along with his Bilderberg Group sponsor Kenneth Clarke, believes that the Westphalian conception of the nation state is outdated and unfashionable.

If Britain is to survive as a nation, we must organise ourselves around the principles of our constitution - that we are sovereign, not the Monarchy, and especially not Parliament. We must learn that politics is not about power. It is about our welfare, our liberty.

If we are to keep our nation, we must learn to fight oligarchy. We must be willing to stand up and govern ourselves. Join us.
Timetable - The conference starts at 10am, and will end around 6pm. The list of "witnesses" is as follows:

Albert Burgess The purpose of a constitution, definition of Treason
Dele Ogun Democracy gone wrong
Charles Farrier The surveillence state
Christopher Story EU corruption in the corridors of power
Andrew Johnson The truth about Swine flu - another tool
John Harris Corporate Britain - undermining democracy
Brian Gerrish Soviet Britain
Anthony Hilder The demise of American Democracy... US today, UK tomorrow
Roger Hayes Conclusion - let the audience decide

It seems it is not just the far right that is growing in the political vaccuum that exists in the Uk, after all if you believe in nothing you end up believing in everything), going by the amount of meetings its looks like the conspiraloon(though not too keen on that term)movement is too, with various meetings around the country on issues like 'The Truth about Swine Flu', though they are mixed up by perfectly rational speakers talking about GM or Norm Baker On Dr Kelly

 

[butchersapron]

These people aren't growing. They pretend that they are.

 

[treelover]

Thats what I wondered, how many go to the meetings? still, a sign of decay in my mind.

 

[Idaho]

It's a natural reaction to the widespread, and widely reported disinformation, propaganda and dissembling that occur on a daily basis. No-one trusts any official messages, leaving a free run for the nutters.

 

[frogwoman]

 

[Badger Kitten]

I think they are growing and I blame the internet. I will explain why shortly if anyone is interested and if I have time but I have to finish a deadly dull report by 5.30pm.

 

[treelover]

I reckon we need a 'punctuation' movement as well going by my awful sentence structure!

yes, BK, you are definitely someone in the know about such things, I've haven't really followed this but the scale of the meetings, the venues, etc suggests something big is happening.

 

[8den]

No. It's just they have more methods of spreading their nonsense.

Look at it this way, if a mate wanted you to watch an Y2K conspiraloonery documentary ten years ago, they could text you, come over, stick in the video they had ordered via the mail, and make you watch it. Now they just send you a bloody YouTube link.

 

[claphamboy]

this but the scale of the meetings, the venues, etc suggests something big is happening.

Jazzz for PM?

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

My mate's turning into a complete conspiranoid. I agree with the OP.

My experience is that more and more people I know are turning to conspiranoidary to help them make sense of the world, cos they don't seem to be getting any satisfactory help from any official bodies.

 

[elbows]

Well the internet certainly helps people network, spread messages, find 'evidence' to backup their instincts & assumptions. There is also the echochamber effect, as well as the new found ease with which people can produce and distribute video.

Plus its easier than ever for people in the UK to pickup ideas from certain sections of American society which have more of a tradition of this sort of thinking (such as anti-fed, new age, libertarians, and from what I can tell certain sections of the African American community).

I think its hard to estimate quite how much its grown, how powerful it really is, though at a minimum its certainly more visible and the traditional media feel the need to draw attention to it and refute it more than before.

Apathy, cynicism, hopelessness when searching for credible alternatives, a prevailing ideological, political & economic direction, internationalism that is not well connected to the everyman, soundbite news & politics, poverty of ideas, lack of quality information, these and other factors surely play their part.

Its not all bad news. Whilst I am concerned about what this could lead to one day, especially if we are faced with decades of decline & loss of prosperity, some of the phenomenon at play demonstrate a willingness for people to try to make a positive difference in the world, no matter how misguided their views are at present.

I find the term conspiraloon generally unhelpful, personally I would reserve it for the most deluded babblings and even then I do not know that ridicule ever helped people with paranoid mental health issues. Perhaps it helps society to guard against being infected with dangerous ideas, perhaps not, Ive no idea.

 

[elbows]

Plus its hard to separate the effects of the internet from the events of our time - Bush & Co and New Labour were not good for credibility of the mainstream, and the spectrum of acceptable politics has been steadily shrinking for a long time. Couple that with reduction is social mobility, and things like the EU, and its almost a wonder that alternative theories are not even more popular than they seem to be at present.

Deliberate disinformation and the loss of obvious scapegoats/enemies may also be a factor - its sort of hard to imagine what either conspiracy theories or the internet would look like if the cold war was still in full frost.

Extremist views, revisionism and gossip are not new phenomenon, they are just easier to observe thanks to the net.

 

[trevhagl]

i don't believe in lizards taking over the earth but you gotta be pretty naive if you can't see anything sinister in the Iraq war, David Kelly's death, Diana's death, Deepcut deaths etc. You may get the odd loon speaking there but on the whole i think most things discussed do have a sinister edge

 

[Psychonaut]

I notice a lot of truthing from underground hip-hop over the last 5 years. Im not especially seeking it out, its like 'oh - him as well?'

 

[elbows]

i don't believe in lizards taking over the earth but you gotta be pretty naive if you can't see anything sinister in the Iraq war, David Kelly's death, Diana's death, Deepcut deaths etc. You may get the odd loon speaking there but on the whole i think most things discussed do have a sinister edge

Well yes, and this is certainly an area where much care is needed. If we are going to ridicule people and use labels like conspiracy theory, there is a risk of becoming as blinkered as those we are attacking. Id prefer to judge each case on its own merits, although that isnt easy, especially when there is seldom enough info to make a concrete conclusion. But people like conclusions and stuff that supports their existing world view, and focus the mind on fighting the good fight and identifying the enemy.

Cynicism is probably ok if we are able to question our own motives as much as everyone elses, but thats easier said than done.

I dont hold out too much hope of improving things by looking at the areas Im droning on about, rather it will depend on other events in the world as to whether this stuff ends up being a real problem. Will our cynicism leading us towards a prison more ghastly than any we imagine already exists, or will, when the going gets tough and people no longer have the luxury of idle speculation and lack of faith, people put their faith into something broader and the mainstream of politics will be renewed? Once decay has reached a sufficient point that there becomes room for something new to grow, and Im not sure conspiracies will play a large role in shaping future growth, for such things tend only to offer fear and anger about the supposed present, rather than credible alternatives. So I reserve my moment of either extreme concern or hope for the time when such movements propose solutions and gain momentum, if that ever happens without them splitting into a thousand factions then I will have to pay close attention to where the reaction may take us.

Why am I so full of relatively useless waffle on this subject?

 

[trevhagl]

some people just seem content to believe that everything is up and above board, and that anyone questioning authority's version events is nuts

 

[8den]

some people just seem content to believe that everything is up and above board, and that anyone questioning authority's version events is nuts

Thats a sweeping generalisation. When it comes to pretty much every conspiracy theory from JFK to 911 I've looked at both sides arguments, and always found the conspiracy theories, lacking rationality, logic, and riddled with basic factual errors.

 

[bhamgeezer]

Conspiracies are fine, it's only the conspiracies that distract from the real causes of problems by blaming stupid things like alien lizards or jewish mystics that are at fault. What happened to good ole' fashioned cynicism regarding other peoples motives?

 

[treelover]

Still waiting for BK, genuinely interested in knowing growth patterns, etc.

 

[JWH]

i don't believe in lizards taking over the earth but you gotta be pretty naive if you can't see anything sinister in the Iraq war, David Kelly's death, Diana's death, Deepcut deaths etc. You may get the odd loon speaking there but on the whole i think most things discussed do have a sinister edge

 

[toblerone3]

I think they are growing and I blame the internet. I will explain why shortly if anyone is interested and if I have time but I have to finish a deadly dull report by 5.30pm.

I disagree. I feel that people are becoming slightly more aware of the unreliability of information on the Internet and the importance of credible sources. I think in the very early years of the Internet people were more open to alternative theories current affairs because of the way that the presentation of this information mimicked the presentation style of traditional (fact-checked) media.

I may be wrong though I could be biased by spending time on Urban75 which is so strongly robust towards alternative theories.

 

[Diamond]

I disagree. I feel that people are becoming slightly more aware of the unreliability of information on the Internet and the importance of credible sources. I think in the very early years of the Internet people were more open to alternative theories current affairs because of the way that the presentation of this information mimicked the presentation style of traditional (fact-checked) media.

I may be wrong though I could be biased by spending time on Urban75 which is so strongly robust towards alternative theories.

I think that's a good point you have about the earlier days of t'internet presenting media in a familiar and therefore implicitly reliable way, however I wouldn't go with your idea about a growing scepticism flowing from the modern internet mediated environment.

From my point of view, the key characteristics of the information flow in the modern internet mediated environment are its enormous volume and fragmentary tendency.

If you take that as a standpoint the attraction of certain types of conspiracy theory becomes apparent - i.e. as organising principles who meet their limited objectives and by doing so appear to provide structure and logic to a chaotic and incomprehensible world.

Sort of like a pomo anti grand narrative modern religion.

 

[butchersapron]

There's no need to write like that Diamond.

 

[butchersapron]

People who are looking for something.

 

[Sasaferrato]

It's a natural reaction to the widespread, and widely reported disinformation, propaganda and dissembling that occur on a daily basis. No-one trusts any official messages, leaving a free run for the nutters.

Quite. The ' official line ' is that the world is warming.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/09/arctic-temperatures-what-hockey-stick/

 

[joe 90]

People who are looking for something.

i cant find my phone. should i hang my head in shame?

 

[Diamond]

There's no need to write like that Diamond.

It's difficult to be concise, lucid and comprehensible.

In translation:

Firstly, I use "modern internet mediated environment" instead of "the internet" because "the internet" fails to convey the entirety of people's everyday interaction with information through modern technology.

Secondly, to illustrate my point about the characteristics of the information flow in such an environment being volume and a fragmentary tendency - think Twitter and Tweets.

Thirdly, that was a bit of self parody at the end.

 

[butchersapron]

i cant find my phone. should i hang my head in shame?

You mean the info flow has been spreadeagled? And that the internet has now created a two-way enviroment in the way that broadcast media could not?

 

[butchersapron]

It's difficult to be concise, lucid and comprehensible.

In translation:

Firstly, I use "modern internet mediated environment" instead of "the internet" because "the internet" fails to convey the entirety of people's everyday interaction with information through modern technology.

Secondly, to illustrate my point about the characteristics of the information flow in such an environment being volume and a fragmentary tendency - think Twitter and Tweets.

Thirdly, that was a bit of self parody at the end.

i think i win.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm only prodding btw Diamond.