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Barrister criticised for calling child abuse victim 'predatory'

weltweit

Well-Known Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23597224
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has criticised a barrister acting on its behalf for describing a 13-year-old sex abuse victim in court as "predatory".

Robert Colover also called the girl "sexually experienced". The CPS said his language had been "inappropriate".

The CPS said it would not instruct Mr Colover in any cases of sexual offences while it considered his situation.

Neil Wilson, 41, admitted abusing the girl at his home in Romford, London, and was given a suspended jail term.

This sounds outrageous, how can a 13 year old girl be perceived as predatory in a situation with a 41 year old man. Only one of them could have been predatory and that is the 41 year old man who should have known better.

I gather from the radio that Colover will be barred for taking similar cases until he has been investigated.
 
He was the CPS barrister arguing for the prosecution of the 41 year old male abuser, it is not completely clear to me why he was so interested in demeaning the abused 13 year old teenager who seems to have been a prosecution witness. There is a bit in the article about it. Anyhow the suspended jail term sentence is also to be reviewed as too lenient.
 
He was the CPS barrister arguing for the prosecution of the 41 year old male abuser, it is not completely clear to me why he was so interested in demeaning the abused 13 year old teenager who seems to have been a prosecution witness. There is a bit in the article about it. Anyhow the suspended jail term sentence is also to be reviewed as too lenient.
Someone on the news said that the prosecuting barrister has a duty to mention mitigation etc that may help the defendant. Though predatory is clearly a ridiculous (and offensive and damaging) thing to say
 
Someone on the news said that the prosecuting barrister has a duty to mention mitigation etc that may help the defendant.
Yes, that was alluded to in the article but I would have thought the majority of that responsibility would have fallen on the defence lawyer who had a direct responsibility to address it.

Whatever else, I am sure that trial was absolute hell for the victim.
Though predatory is clearly a ridiculous (and offensive and damaging) thing to say
Yes.
 
Even if the girl exhibited sexualised behaviour around this man, it was entirely his responsibility to act appropriately and not respond to her advances (if it is the case that she even made advances). The power imbalance in terms of age, gender and vulnerability invalidates any suggestion of his being 'forced' into sexual activity with the girl. Why does society view men's sexuality as something that cannot (rather than will not) be controlled in the face of 'temptation'? The barrister was utterly wrong and missed the opportunity to send out a message that, however young people present, it is always beholden on the adult to do the right thing. It stinks, but at least there has been a quick response and commitment to review the matter. Hope the young woman is receiving a lot of support. Was she in court when the bastard barrister made these comments?
 
It's a bit odd - apparently the judge went along with it as well. Upon first reading about it, I thought it was a defence barrister saying it and, distasteful though it may sound, I wouldn't have had much of a problem if that had've been the case - If you're a defence lawyer defending someone accused of noncery, some of the defence you mount might well be a bit(or a lot) distasteful, but it'd be up to the rest of the court to show otherwise - That's (unfortunately a lot of the time) how courts work.

But the fact that it was a prosecutor saying this? Well, that does seem very, very odd. I'd like to know a bit more about this case.

Apparently, from what I heard on the radio this aft, the girl was "physically mature" - So what? Means nothing, just coz her tits grew before those of her contemporaries doesn't mean she's any less of a kid. Also, the court mentioned that she acted in a sexually precocious manner - is that not indicitive of problems at home more than anything else?
 
As i said, even if she did behave in a sexualised manner, (hate the term precocious in this context, as its usually child blaming), he should never have taken her into his home. A grown man, 41 years old, should know better. It is possible, Frances, that she has been abused before, but that is what makes the actions of this man so exploitative, he did it cos he fucking could. I hope he goes to prison following the review.

There's nothing odd about professional men colluding with sexually abusive and exploitative behaviour and letting them off lightly, it happens very often! Sure god love us, the poor man was rendered completely helpless in the face of this temptress.
 
As i said, even if she did behave in a sexualised manner, (hate the term precocious in this context, as its usually child blaming), he should never have taken her into his home. A grown man, 41 years old, should know better. It is possible, Frances, that she has been abused before, but that is what makes the actions of this man so exploitative, he did it cos he fucking could. I hope he goes to prison following the review.

There's nothing odd about professional men colluding with sexually abusive and exploitative behaviour and letting them off lightly, it happens very often! Sure god love us, the poor man was rendered completely helpless in the face of this temptress.

That's what i was trying to get at - Soz if I didn't express myself clearly enough. And I agree with you about the term "precocious" as well - I only used it coz it was what was, apparently, said in court - I'm not going along with what went on in court at all.
 
Oh, I thought she was, I thought the prosecuter made the remarks to her directly.

It seems almost worse to make them without her there to counter them.

Except she probably wouldn't have been able to counter them, so better she wasn't there to hear it.
 
Except she probably wouldn't have been able to counter them, so better she wasn't there to hear it.
Yes, good point.

However the person who might have been expected to counter them, the prosecuter, was the very person making the allegations. He seems to have been doing the defence's job for them.
 
Yes, good point.

However the person who might have been expected to counter them, the prosecuter, was the very person making the allegations. He seems to have been doing the defence's job for them.

Its really hard to understand, isn't it? It'll be interesting to see how they account for these things. Hope they don't go down the road of further blaming her because of her mature development, behaviour, etc.
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ory-is-barred-from-similar-cases-8750521.html
Barrister who called 13-year-old sex abuse victim 'predatory' is barred from similar cases
The barrister who called a 13-year-old abuse victim sexually "predatory" in court will not be used in similar cases pending an investigation, it has been announced today.

Separately, the Office for Judicial Complaints said it would be considering complaints against the judge in the case, who appeared to accept the prosecutor’s comments when sparing the girl’s 41-year-old abuser jail.

It seems the judge will be investigated also.
 
This is interesting- Polly Toynbee thinks it is part of a wider misogyny. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/07/misogyny-society-abused-children-predatory

Just reading what was actually said- 'the girl is predatory in all her actions and is sexually experienced' and then the judge sentencing said he was taking into account that the victim 'looked and behaved older than she was'

Shocking stuff.... And the bloke had images of child abuse and bestiality on his PC. This l
 
This is interesting- Polly Toynbee thinks it is part of a wider misogyny. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/07/misogyny-society-abused-children-predatory

Just reading what was actually said- 'the girl is predatory in all her actions and is sexually experienced' and then the judge sentencing said he was taking into account that the victim 'looked and behaved older than she was'

Shocking stuff.... And the bloke had images of child abuse and bestiality on his PC. This l

That bit especially made me wonder just how far we've got. Not very far at all it seems. I thought this kind of bullshit went out with Judge Pickles.
 
Yes Manter, interesting article ..
In a notorious recent child prostitution case in Shropshire one victim was cross-examined for 12 days by seven defence barristers. One young person in another case tried to kill herself after a similar experience.

Not the whole thrust of the article but I can quite understand people not wanting to pursue a perpetrator because of the ordeal they are likely to face.
 
I once heard my mother's husband complaining about how teenage girls "know the effect they're having" on older men. When I say teenage, I mean they were about 13, 14, 15 years old. This man made a pass at one of his stepdaughters when she was about 16, told her he was just being friendly, they were family now. I don't think he's a predatory peadophile, or even, really, a nonce. He's a creepy sexist prick who thinks all females have some kind of predatory sexual agenda, so they're up for it, asking for it, it's in their nature, they have it in for men, they use their sexuality cos it's all the power they have. Vagina dentata and all that. While I was shocked at the time, I now think that he's really pretty run-of-the-mill.

This barrister is probably of the same type, I reckon. I imagine he does not conceive the heinous nature of his words; and I suppose that someone of that mindset would go on to point at the reaction and say "See! You're all oppressed and blinkered by the fear of insulting women and modern PC sensibilities! But they really are dangerous and predatory, and here's the proof! See how cowed and castrated you all are, how impotent you have become! You won't consider the slightest possibility that I'm right! I may be wrong in this instance, but anyone who knows the female knows how dangerous she can be, even the infants! Burn them! Burn them all!"

(He won't, of course: he'll be good and quiet and contrite and save his skin and stay the same and just be pissed off and self-righteous.)

I have been really non-plussed by this story today. I sat in the car this evening listening to the discussion on the 6 o'clock news on the radio. Some guy was saying how he'd seen a prosecution witness, a young lass, demolished in court by the defence, who had her read out every line of a previous - and subsequently retracted - statement she'd made about a sexual assault by her stepfather. The judge allowed the questions to continue even as the jury were clearly (albeit silently) in revolt. Someone else will recall more details about this. I was just appalled, but not surprised.

Manter, I don't know the details of the new guidelines, but the brief outline in that link looks okay, fairly sensible. I've not given it much thought yet, but it seems that while we must preserve the basic tenet of innocence until proven guilty, the law is so lumbered about and encumbered by complexities of interpretative argument that it ends up as a tool used to achieve the competative goal of a verdict of innocence or guilt, rather than a road to finding the truth. And witnesses are used as collateral and capital rather than signposts and wayfinders on that road.

Certainly it's time to look at how everyone in sexual assault cases are enabled to stand witness without being assaulted again by the system.

It's not just those who have been assaulted who end up traumatised by it: the families are often dragged through it aggressively too. If they are to help the victim to recover, they must not themselves be damaged by the process.
 
"In a notorious recent child prostitution case in Shropshire one victim was cross-examined for 12 days by seven defence barristers"

Replace cocks with words, and there you have it, gang raped all over again by a group of men wielding their privilege and their power. Cunts.

And yet there's been a system in place for vulnerable witnesses for over a decade that's supposed to prevent this sort of behaviour by barristers. Any judge that doesn't stamp on this sort of behaviour is colluding in abuse. They know their powers to hold barristers to the legislation, but some of these upper-class fucks don't exercise it on their (mostly) fellow upper-class fucks.

The criminal justice system is institutionally sexist and racist. Arguably to the same degree it was 20 years ago. Why? Because so many of the people who form the heirarchy of the criminal justice system come from the same schools and colleges as the previous generations, and have the same prejudices and preferences.

Kill 'em all.
 
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