Arbeit Macht Frei: Appeal And Your Benefits Could Be Stopped!

[Bakunin]

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/10/work-fit-appeal-ruling

Very clever of the Tories and their Libdem lickspittles, this. They're suggesting that those who appeal against being found fit for work should have their benefits suspended until their appeal is heard (an appeal they may well lose anyway). Due to the considerable numbers of sick and disabled people winning their appeals at Tribunal, they've got the idea that, rather than take a thorough look at why so many win on appeal in the first place (a vastly unfair and thoroughly dishonest system run by ATOS springs to mind) that they'll simply stack the deck further against claimants by wanting to cut off our money entirely while we challenge the original decision.

The new ethos of the DWP/ATOS/Condems towards the sick and disabled seems to be one of wanting to deliver as little as possible, take as long as possible to deliver the pittance that they actually come up with and starve people into submission if they try to make waves.

 

[jakethesnake]

Breath taking.

 

[Maidmarian]

FFS !!!!! That doesn't even happen to prisoners on appeal !!!! <OUTRAGE>

 

[Captain Hurrah]

The suicide of stressed claimants will work in the government's favour, too. It's all good.

 

[Meltingpot]

I feel very strongly about this.

No one without savings should ever have their benefits cut off completely, for any reason whatever. Take it from someone who once had no money coming in at all for 4 weeks during a cold spell in the depths of winter (and would most likely have starved and / or froze if my Mum hadn't put me up over that time).

Either the people responsible for this affront of a policy don't have the imagination to see what's going to happen if they implement it, in which case they're too stupid for high office, or they do know and don't care, in which case they're effectively psychopaths and should be disqualified from office for that reason. The result's the same.

 

[Meltingpot]

FFS !!!!! That doesn't even happen to prisoners on appeal !!!! <OUTRAGE>

Exactly.

Right now where I live they're setting up food banks because people don't have enough to live on and feed themselves properly. This law if it passes is set to make things a lot worse.

 

[Bakunin]

This is how I think they'll try and spin this idea to try and get it through:

1. It'll mean that the number of people filing appeals will drop through the floor, which will save a great deal of money in benefit claims and backdated payments.

2. The ConDems will then say that the fall in appeals is proof that benefit 'reform' is working.

3. If pressed about the effect it has on claimants they'll say 'But there's still a proper appeals procedure' while not mentioning that actually trying to use it will leave a claimant destitute and probably homeless if their Housing Benefit is suspended as well.

This is what I think this idea would actually result in:

1. Large increases in the homeless figures.

2. An increase in the number of suicides among the sick and disabled.

3. An increase in petty crime as people forced to do whatever they have to to survive at all resort to criminal means because they have no other means by which to exist any more.

4. A matching increase in the prison population and those who have led previously blameless lives finding themselves forever tarred with the brush of being crooks when they only broke the law because the system left them with no other choice.

 

[Maidmarian]

WoooHooo job doner then !
BASTARDS.

 

[ska invita]

The suicide of stressed claimants will work in the government's favour, too. It's all good.

Met a woman the other day with minor mental health issues who said the stress of possibly losing benefits was driving her into a spiral of ever poorer health. Hurrah's mention of possible suicides is bang on i think.

 

[Bakunin]

Exactly.

Right now where I live they're setting up food banks because people don't have enough to live on and feed themselves properly. This law if it passes is set to make things a lot worse.

In Plymouth there's only one Foodbank for the entire city and, while they do the absolute best they can with what they have to give out, one Foodbank for a city of 270,000 people is never going to be enough. I'm lucky in that I have an extremely supportive family who always do what they can for me if I need them to, but many sick and disabled people lack informal networks of friends and family to help them, especially those with mental health issues. What people in that position will do to get by I don't know.

 

[Bakunin]

Hurrah's mention of possible suicides is bang on i think.

The suicides have already started, I'm afraid. Scottish author Paul Reekie was found dead next to his table, on the table were letters cutting off his housing and disability benefits:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/author_s_suicide_due_to_slash_in_benefits_1_1367963

RIP Paul Reekie.

 

[ska invita]

That is really sad. I know a (very) little about Rebel Inc press - I think they published a bit of alexander trochhi - good cutting edge British writing.

...

words fail me. RIP

 

[Meltingpot]

This is how I think they'll try and spin this idea to try and get it through:

1. It'll mean that the number of people filing appeals will drop through the floor, which will save a great deal of money in benefit claims and backdated payments.

2. The ConDems will then say that the fall in appeals is proof that benefit 'reform' is working.

3. If pressed about the effect it has on claimants they'll say 'But there's still a proper appeals procedure' while not mentioning that actually trying to use it will leave a claimant destitute and probably homeless if their Housing Benefit is suspended as well.

This is what I think this idea would actually result in:

1. Large increases in the homeless figures.

2. An increase in the number of suicides among the sick and disabled.

3. An increase in petty crime as people forced to do whatever they have to to survive at all resort to criminal means because they have no other means by which to exist any more.

4. A matching increase in the prison population and those who have led previously blameless lives finding themselves forever tarred with the brush of being crooks when they only broke the law because the system left them with no other choice.

Agreed. Truth be known, when my crisis happened and before my Mum stepped in and offered me a room I was actually thinking of what offence I could commit that would get me banged up for a while at Her Maj's pleasure (bear in mind it was the middle of winter). I'm sure a lot of other people in the same position think the same thing.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

They despise humanity. They think it to be synonymous with weakness. a thousand curses on the LDs for facilitating this. How long will they keep screwing us? As long as we allow it. How many people on DLA, or who give a shit vote tory? That's the main political calculation here.

 

[Jackobi]

I feel very strongly about this.

No one without savings should ever have their benefits cut off completely, for any reason whatever.

Ideologically, it's a good incentive to find work.

As I understand it, not all benefits will be cut off completely. The Incapacity Benefit element will be stopped whilst an appeal is in process. The claimant should still receive all other benefit entitlements, typically Job Seekers Allowance, Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit.

It is still a shit policy, but I think the details are important in order to protest against it.

 

[Meltingpot]

Ideologically, it's a good incentive to find work.

As I understand it, not all benefits will be cut off completely. The Incapacity Benefit element will be stopped whilst an appeal is in process. The claimant should still receive all other benefit entitlements, typically Job Seekers Allowance, Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit.

It is still a shit policy, but I think the details are important in order to protest against it.

Beg to differ here. If you get Incap (now called ESA), you don't get JSA, the former is an alternative to the latter. And housing benefit and council tax benefit aren't much comfort when you've got no other money to live on.

 

[Silent Majority]

Such a system should be rolled out across the entire welfare state. Given that most “disabled” people are nothing of the sort, a lot are just fat and/or lazy, all hard working people should welcome this, especially given this alarming fact: that the government spends more in welfare benefits that it collects in income tax, so here we have for the most part the hardworking supporting the idle.
What’s more if these people are genuinely disabled they will have no issue going through the tests.
Oh, and those found to be on the hey-diddle-diddle should be made to pay it all back plus the cost of their apprehension.

 

[captainmission]

look on the bright side- at least there's a right to appeal. Current plans for universal credit give no right of appeal

 

[frogwoman]

Such a system should be rolled out across the entire welfare state. Given that most “disabled” people are nothing of the sort, a lot are just fat and/or lazy, all hard working people should welcome this, especially given this alarming fact: that the government spends more in welfare benefits that it collects in income tax, so here we have for the most part the hardworking supporting the idle.
What’s more if these people are genuinely disabled they will have no issue going through the tests.
Oh, and those found to be on the hey-diddle-diddle should be made to pay it all back plus the cost of their apprehension.

Just fuck off

 

[Silent Majority]

Just fuck off

OK, I'll follow you.

 

[frogwoman]

OK, I'll follow you.

You're not real

 

[captainmission]

Ideologically, it's a good incentive to find work.

As I understand it, not all benefits will be cut off completely. The Incapacity Benefit element will be stopped whilst an appeal is in process. The claimant should still receive all other benefit entitlements, typically Job Seekers Allowance, Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit.

It is still a shit policy, but I think the details are important in order to protest against it.

Whilst appealing incapacity benefit a claimant could currently receive reduced rate income support. Whilst appealing Employment and Support Allowance on ground of incapacity for work you can conitnue to recieve ESA at the assesmnet rate. It's all very well saying claim JSA, but that has its own workseeking requirement that many disabled people won't be able to meet or by doing so it seriously going to affect there health.

 

[nino_savatte]

You're not real

A returner, I reckon.

 

[Jackobi]

Beg to differ here. If you get Incap (now called ESA), you don't get JSA, the former is an alternative to the latter. And housing benefit and council tax benefit aren't much comfort when you've got no other money to live on.

The appeal would be against ESA being withdrawn, hence the claimant would receive JSA whilst the appeal was considered.

 

[frogwoman]

A returner, I reckon.

yeah having looked at his other posts ("the great norman tebbit"(!)) i think its someone avin a bubble as they say

 

[Meltingpot]

Such a system should be rolled out across the entire welfare state. Given that most “disabled” people are nothing of the sort, a lot are just fat and/or lazy, all hard working people should welcome this, especially given this alarming fact: that the government spends more in welfare benefits that it collects in income tax, so here we have for the most part the hardworking supporting the idle.
What’s more if these people are genuinely disabled they will have no issue going through the tests.
Oh, and those found to be on the hey-diddle-diddle should be made to pay it all back plus the cost of their apprehension.

And you know this how?

 

[purenarcotic]

Such a system should be rolled out across the entire welfare state. Given that most “disabled” people are nothing of the sort, a lot are just fat and/or lazy, all hard working people should welcome this, especially given this alarming fact: that the government spends more in welfare benefits that it collects in income tax, so here we have for the most part the hardworking supporting the idle.
What’s more if these people are genuinely disabled they will have no issue going through the tests.
Oh, and those found to be on the hey-diddle-diddle should be made to pay it all back plus the cost of their apprehension.

Dick.

 

[frogwoman]

And you know this how?

he doesn't, doesnt even believe that shit either, he's just an idiot on a windup.

 

[Silent Majority]

And you know this how?

Personal experience in dealing with welfare claimants. What's your experience of the welfare system, apart from poncing from it?

 

[Meltingpot]

The appeal would be against ESA being withdrawn, hence the claimant would receive JSA whilst the appeal was considered.

You might be right, but I think that's optimistic. My guess is that more likely you'd get Hardship Allowance which is about 60% of JSA. I didn't even get that for 4 weeks.