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A song of ice and fire (AKA the spoiler thread)

Shippou-Sensei

Shippou-Sensei

4:1:2.5
To remove some tension from the other thread.

So what do people think of the adaptation in terms of the book series?

who are you looking forward to seeing? who do you think they might do well and where do you think they might fail?

what do you think of the books overall? where do you think it's all going?


personaly i'm really hyped for a dance with dragons as i felt a feast for crows started to drag in places. i particularly felt bored by the iron islands sub plot. the most intresting bit is seeing cersi crash and burn

the evolution of jamie has been intresting it seems the losing of a hand has been his making.

talking of which wasn't Brienne's cliff hanger ending a bitch?
 
Shiiit, I hardly remember any of this. Might as well re-read the books now that the last two are coming out. Overall I'm very pleased about the adaptation - maybe a tad less sex and a bit more killing would've improved things, but 9/10 from me so far.
 
I'll be re-reading the books from the beginning in a couple of months time. I've forgotten quite a lot, particularly about what happens in which particular book.

I'm looking forward to what they do with the north of the Wall stuff in the TV series, and the continuing development of Daenerys into a full scale warrior empress accidentally liberating huge numbers of people entirely as a by-product of attempting to gather an army to take back the seven kingdoms.
 
Me too! The book seems to signal to start wrapping up of the series. I guess the Starks are Ice and Daenerys the fire of the title. Personally I'm on the Starks side, I'd like to see if and how Sansa, Ayra, Bran, Rickon and Jon reconvene. Also Dondarrion who is epic yet weary in the book see what game he plays...Also howland Reed to do some serious damage to Roose Bolton and Reek.
 
i think it's the whole death vs life thing with the ice being the others and the long winter and the fire being humanity and the summer and more specifically dyneris being the key the bringer of dragons who will be able to halt the advance of the others or at least unify humanity to face their real foe
 
Shippou-Sensei said:
i think it's the whole death vs life thing with the ice being the others and the long winter and the fire being humanity and the summer and more specifically dyneris being the key the bringer of dragons who will be able to halt the advance of the others or at least unify humanity to face their real foe
Click to expand...

this - ice refers to what lies beyond the wall.
 
Shippou-Sensei said:
i think it's the whole death vs life thing with the ice being the others and the long winter and the fire being humanity and the summer and more specifically dyneris being the key the bringer of dragons who will be able to halt the advance of the others or at least unify humanity to face their real foe
Click to expand...

Then, this will end up, like every other fantasy novel i've read as a work of untter Conservatism. Total shame.
 
flypanam said:
Then, this will end up, like every other fantasy novel i've read as a work of untter Conservatism. Total shame.
Click to expand...

You haven't read the right fantasy books then. Good and evil doesn't readily map onto a Conservatism-Socialism spectrum.
 
I think literature would be all the poorer is that was all that was offered. I like the series first off beacuse it's a gripping story, fairly well told though in truth he can be very heavy handed. Secondly because it's based on the 'War of the Roses' I do expect a quite conservative ending. However i don't see that this series has any sense of good or evil, the Others/Wrights (notwithstanding) the grey shades are overwhelming. And for that reason alone I would like something more than Daenarys sitting on the throne at the end, rubbing away any of interregnums(sp) history...

This probably ain't the form but what would you suggest for the "right" fantasy books?
 
"Right" is pretty vague... I'd try out some of Gene Wolfe's stuff. He's a bit of a love it/hate it type of author, quite literary.
 
flypanam said:
I think literature would be all the poorer is that was all that was offered. I like the series first off beacuse it's a gripping story, fairly well told though in truth he can be very heavy handed. Secondly because it's based on the 'War of the Roses' I do expect a quite conservative ending. However i don't see that this series has any sense of good or evil, the Others/Wrights (notwithstanding) the grey shades are overwhelming. And for that reason alone I would like something more than Daenarys sitting on the throne at the end, rubbing away any of interregnums(sp) history...

This probably ain't the form but what would you suggest for the "right" fantasy books?
Click to expand...

although I will agree with you on the grey moral ground, or as I prefer to call it 'shower of cunts'. Its hard to like anyone in 'Clash of Kings', hence me sacking the series off. I'll have to read the rest now to see whats going to happen in the prog.
 
as much as it does have grey moral ground characters it does have it's fair share of evil characters i mean it's prety hard to class the mountain and his gang as anything but evil.
it does quite well in showing that supposed bad guys like the wildlings are also grey morally


i think they key here is to see what happens with the others.
 
Jon will be king, Daenerys will be queen and Tyrion will be hand. You heard it here first.

Also Jon Snow is blatantly Rhaegar & Lyanna's son. So he's Daenerys' nephew. Um.



It would be more satisfying if the kingdom splits for good, I reckon.
 
that is disturbingly possible

although i can't see jon actually leaving the nioghts watch i do imagine a changed north where he is seen as both air to winterfell a king beyond the wall and lord comander of the nights watch. a senareio that the king of the north means to be the holder of the wall and a go between for the wildlings an d the south
 
flypanam said:
This probably ain't the form but what would you suggest for the "right" fantasy books?
Click to expand...

Guy Gavriel Kay, in particular Tigana and A Song For Arbonne. Quite similar in many ways to George RR Martin in that it's high on grit and low on magic, has interesting characters often working against archetypes, and loads of political machinations to go with the background of casual violence. However Kay is a far better writer, and they are actually novels not parts of a huge epic sequence that may never get finished.

They aren't technically fantasy (or any other genre really) but I highly recommend Mary Gentle's books if you can handle some fairly disturbing stuff. She uses more historically accurate settings, and rather than magic uses the pre-Newtonian idea of "hermetic science" as if it actually worked. In that sense it's sort of sf but with deliberately wrong science. Wonderfully strange stuff and generally brilliantly written. The best is Ash: A Secret History and its sequel Ilario, though 1660 and the White Crow books are excellent too.
 
Shippou-Sensei said:
i think it's the whole death vs life thing with the ice being the others and the long winter and the fire being humanity and the summer and more specifically dyneris being the key the bringer of dragons who will be able to halt the advance of the others or at least unify humanity to face their real foe
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree.

The overarching theme is the use and abuse of loyalty. What Daenerys has isn't dragons, that's just what she thinks she has, but her real strength is that she has followers who owe her their freedom. The Starks have a code of honour that is rigid to the point of being dangerous, and the Lannisters have a code of honour that basically consists of fuck everyone before they get the chance to fuck you and then claim you are doing the right thing and kill anyone who disagrees. All of them are badly flawed and the books detail those flaws pretty thoroughly.

I'm expecting a conclusion that implies that after all the mayhem and death, nothing has really changed for the vast majority of people.
 
i don't think ice is the Starks because by nolw there are only two and a half of them left and they don't present the same dynamic as ned did

also where does the lannisers come into the title then? a song of ice, fire and dangerous cunts?
 
Shippou-Sensei said:
i don't think ice is the Starks because by nolw there are only two and a half of them left and they don't present the same dynamic as ned did
also where does the lannisers come into the title then? a song of ice, fire and dangerous cunts?
Click to expand...

It's the dynamic, honour will out in most fantasy novels. The Starks are being tested and scattered. However like Ayra dreams of being a wolf leading a pack, Jon, Bran (maybe Rickon) do to. I imagine that Jon will be the rallying point for the Starks beacuse he makes some pretty strong decisions as Lord Commander of the Wall. I think he'll have to become embroiled in the Westeros conflict leading Bran etc to the wall. Ayra will return as a faceless woman and carry out some mad bad moves.

As for the Lannisters i don't think they have actually anything to do with the series title. They are just utter shits.
 
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